When Relevance = Ew.

I don't know what to say about this whole thing.  Other than it strikes me as a little creepy. 

It's not creepy that "God wants (me) to have a great sex life":  It's creepy that Pastor Wirth in Tampa wants me to have a great sex life. 

No -- wait:  What's creepy is I don't know Pastor Wirth, and now, I'm thinking about Pastor Wirth's sex life. 

You see, I believe 1) There is a God, 2) God may want Pastor Wirth to have a great sex life, and 3) God doesn't really want me thinknig about it, because, 4) God cries when I throw up.

I've heard it before:  "Well, God created sex, so, obviously, we can talk about it, in frank terms, during an oration in front of a large crowd of worshipers." 

God made our rear-ends, too, but -- thankfully, at least in irrelevant churches -- the pastor keeps his covered.  Turns out, God made everything, but there are times, and places, for everything.  That's why some of us aren't comfortable with, say, a couple -- even a married one! -- making out in the pew in front of us during the next Tomlin song.  Let's agree, sex is the most fun thing to do, ever, but "How Great is Your Bod" may not be appropriate for the worship set just yet.

What's more, if I went to "Relevant Church", I wouldn't want to be looking around the room, wondering who's taking the 30-day challenge, and who isn't.  What about Gladys and Myron, in row 14, over there?  I've noticed they drive a smokin' Ford Taurus.

Come to think of it, I don't want Myron wondering about me, and I don't want to think about whether Myron is wondering if Gladys is wondering about Pastor Wirth.   

And let's admit, having a Pastor say, "God and I want you to have great sex!!!" is tantamount to your uncle, looking in the living room at you and your teen friends, and saying, "You guys are just having too much fun in here!!!"

Yeah.  We were.  Until you said that.

So, after full consideration regarding this outreach program:  Ew.  If this is relevance, I'll take ignorance.

Comments

[Francie]

I'm with you on this. I'm also not sure about telling singles to "remove sex from the equation for 30 days." What about until you're married?

And as someone who's kids are now older, I find it telling that the guy with young children is saying that his wife falls asleep as soon as her head hits the pillow. Maybe it's a bit of a burden to expect sex every day on top of that. Or a better question would be, how much are you helping your spouse so she isn't a walking zombie by 9:00 pm? For me and my friends, that is the biggest way to help a marriage when young kids are involved.

I saw an interview with this pastor on the news and my immediate thought agreed with yours...ewww.

[Becky]

I thought the same thing! Ew. I thought it was just a single thing. Like I was left out of some married club joke or something.

I'm glad to read this post.

[Chaotic Hammer]

Shout to the Lord!

Bom-Chicka-Wah-Wah!

[Sandy]

A hearty "AMEN" from Prudence here. This had a major "ew" factor for me. Gee, I wonder if a man thought this up (with his wife's "collaberation")?

[Da Bears Fan]

You know I love you (in the most non-sexual manly way as possible), but along with the challenge to married people is the challenge to singles to abstain. And I haven't heard that preached in a while from the pulpit either. Thirty days to boot! For those practicing that sin, it is going to be rough. As the old saying goes, been ther...I mean, well you know. (Windstars are much sexier too.)

[Marie]

As the Church Lady would say, "It's inapPROpriate."

[Wolfgang Amadeus M.]

Brant-
I frankly, don't understand how anyone can look out at a whole mega-church full of people, married, unmarried, and etal, and say such a thing-especially living in the current society that we do- that has no restraints!

Seems like a strange request that contradicts the whole concept of what "sex" is meant to be in the Christian Culture. So- if the thirty days is to continue Abrahams command- to populate the world- then- its cool... but if it isn't...then there seems to be something a bit off.

OH well..just a question I had when I originally read the Article in the News. I thought it a bit unique at the time.

Perhaps the Pastor knows something we don't know-you don't suppose he has had some kind of enlightening heavenly experience do you?

Or-
Perhaps he just had too much burnt toast..

Wolfgang

[Paul Lytle]

You know, I feel all of you on this. It's a little disconcerting to talk about sex in church. It's uncomfortable, and it makes you feel a little self-conscious. So maybe we should make everyone feel better and not talk about sex.

Wait a minute, doesn't this all sound a little familiar? Oh, yeah! They're the same arguments used by the people who don't want to talk about sin in church either.

I don't know if this 30-day thing is a good idea or not. I'm a single spud, so sex just really doesn't enter my life at the moment. 30 days of no sex for me? Ha! But let's face it, when the church is producing as many divorces as the world and when the church is suffering from infidelity as much as the world, we need to start talking about sex.

No, let me rephrase that. We never should have STOPPED talking about sex. You want to know why? Because the Bible never stopped talking about sex. The Song of Solomon is pretty darn graphic, and if you want your church to just skip that part of the BIBLE because you are uncomfortable, then maybe you should reevaluate the important you place on God's Word vs your own comfort zone.

1 Cor. 7 talks about not refusing each other sexually, and how we should make our spouses (well, your spouses, since I don't have one) welcome in our beds. Should we skip that part of the Bible as well? I tell you the truth -- more people in your church need to hear this message than a message against homosexuality AGAIN.

I am not content to only hear those parts of the Bible with which I am comfortable. If I were, then I would just like those people who don't want to hear about sin.

If we are uncomfortable, if it makes us feel weird, then let's pray for some wisdom on the subject. I know some of you don't want to hear this, but God DID intend for us to talk about sex frankly in groups. You know why I know that? Because it's in the Bible.

[John M.]

This is a gimmick, nothing more. Zero theological content.

[grace]

yep tmi, especially when people start talking about how "the challenge" is going for them

[amy]

My heart instantly went out to the wives...

[revolutionfl]

you and just about every other Christian would take ignorance.

I'll take relevance.

[M.E.]

This is such an "ewwww" in so many ways, I'm not sure I can contemplate it in depth without "ewwwwing" all the way to the bathroom and leaving an undigested offering to the porcelain "god". Any teenagers participating in that worship service would surely be horrified at the idea of their parents having sex at all, let alone 30 days in a row. And if we to believe the Bible as the Word of God, challenging unmarried couples to not fornicate for 30 days is more than a bit off the mark too. The implications of this are just so "ewwww" inspiring, I think Pastor ___ should apologise to his congregation for inserting his ideas where they doesn't belong. This sort of talk may be appropriate in a private counseling session or a small group gathering if you're willing to stretch it quite a bit, but not in front of an entire congregation.

Dear Pastor ___,

If we promise to stay out of your sex life, will you promise to stay out of ours?

[Brant]

Oh, I'm fine with the church teaching and talking about sexuality. More than fine with it.

Strikingly, though, this doesn't mean the best way to do it is a guy's oratory to a big crowd on a Sunday morning. That may be what our culture is demanding, but I doubt it.

Our church talks and teaches about sex frequently, like when the guys take a 13 year-old out for dinner on his birthday, and then have a sit-down on the back porch for some personal advice and challenge.

So I suspect there are other, better, more personal, ways of talking and teaching about it.

If a mass, one-size-fits-all sex challenge from the stage is the only way we can conceive of how the church can teach about it, we're seeing just how awkward it is to retro-fit our idea of "church" onto "relevance", and every other subject.

Honest: There really are ways to teach about sex -- and, for what it's worth be "relevant" -- than sermons and mass-marketing campaigns.

[deborah]

Pastor Wirth says "We thought if we could challenge our married couples to really engage in intimacy for 30 days and really focus on each others needs for 30 days it would revolutionize their relationships..."

i think the pastor has a convoluted idea of what "intimacy" is. it's not all about sex.

[Brian]

I agree Brant. We must talk about sexuality, but this is just kind of odd. Does Pastor Wirth know that you can't actually have sex with your wife 30 days in a row?

We travel and work in Haiti and we get 5 minutes on Channel 3 in Champaign.

Has anyone noticed how tired Pastor Wirth has been looking lately?

[From Brant: You know, I didn't want to say anything, because I didn't want to be an idiot, but yes, there is a time of the month for a time-out. Thanks for pointing that out.

30 times? Yes, and happily -- but 30 days in a row, no, due to factors beyond our control.

Working in Haiti just ain't that relevant, brother. Here's to irrelevance, even if it's out of the spotlight.]

[Da Bears Fan]

After having checked the church's website, I can see why this is going on over there. Their pastor is into 80's Big Hair Bands! Ewwwwwwwww!!!

Seriously, I quote you, "if you're sexually involved, outside of marriage, you'll fight and scrap and intellectualize -- anything -- to make the dissonance go away. It may even mean divising (sic) a counter-intuitive and counter-logical system that means there's probably no God, anyway. If it means compartmentalizing to the point of mental illness, you can do it. You can eventually kill the conscience. Mission accomplished."

Here is someone throwing out a stop-order to those who listen and try.

P.S. to Wolfie - Having been to Ybor City, this church ain't meeting in a big place, so calling it a mega-church is a little overboard.

P.S.S. I tossed out my t-shirt a long time ago. Now I got an 11 year-old girl and last nights topic was the handing out of condoms in her school. Let's not stop talking about a healthy sexual relationship between married couples. Two becoming one. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

[Seaton]

Call me cynical, but does this strike anyone else as a way to grab some media attention, or maybe a pretty desperate way to be "relevant"?

[Justin]

Maybe what Pastor Wirth meant to say was that he hopes everyone in the church will go on a life-changing short-term mission trip to Mexico. While having non-stop sex.

[Josh S]

I haven't had sex for somewhere in the neighborhood of 9500 days. Do I win a prize?

[From Brant: It would be the highest irony if your streak ended in the next 30 days.]

[Brady]

Right on, Brant! (see, I just revealed that I'm old by saying "right on!")

This poor pastor has been driven to this by desperation: Either he has a mega-building he has to fill up at any cost, or, he doesn't have a mega building and of course, he needs one!

To put it in Hansen-ese, he is tired of having "pretty awesome" mega-numbers, and wants "awesomely awesome" mega-numbers!!!

[Seth Ward]

I like me some sexy sermons! I tell you what. I love it when a preacher feels relevant enough to talk about hot, godly, chubby-deacon-sex and quotes that verse from Song of Solomon, "really like your peaches wanna shake your tree..." or was that Ruth...? Anyways, Smokin!

For the invitation did they play, "bom chicka bom booowm?"

That would have been really cool and relevantalicious.

[Seth Ward]

Sorry, C-hammer beat me to the old standard porn whammy-lick joke. Lick... okay, no, that's enough.

[Wolfgang Amadeus M.]

Ah..sorry- I didn't know that it wasn't a mega church- you can probably understand my mistake. I have never been to a Mega-church, nor will I ever go to one. My religeon precludes it.

Thirty days of Sex- well- its just not going to happen for me..'fraid I wouldn't do well in this pastors church! LOL

So- there is a bit of an Ewwwww factor there...and frankly- if your single- as I am..what are you going to do to fulfill that command??? Sin?

Interesting Qunadry.

Wolfie

[Julie]

Allow me to suggest something, relevant or not:

The number one reason, in my opinion only, is the reason there are so many issues surrounding sexuality in this country is because people are unwilling to talk about it - and at the same time, are *bombarded* with sexual messages and innuendo at ever turn. That, my friends, is the perfect formula for serious sexual confusion and angst.

Sexuality is still considered to be a dirty thing by many people. The reason our society has become so amazingly hyper-sexual is due in large part to the stigma and the "relegation to the back alley" mentality - and reluctance on the part of many to have open and frank sexual discussion with their spouses, with those who counsel them, or with their kids (at the appropriate age, of course).

It's a vicious cycle. We pound abstinence into the heads of our children, afraid of letting them out the door in fear that they are going to immediately climb into a car or head under the bleachers to lose their virginity as fast as they possibly can. But they are blasted by sexual messages on every front, every day, and this conflict is what encourages them to experiment, especially since it has been impressed on them to such a huge degree that sex is "verboten" - and a lot of parents are so squirmy about talking about sex to their kids that again, it enforces the false belief that sex is dirty and bad and that they are committing some sort of mortal sin if they have sex outside of marriage. Well, it might be a sin, but it's no worse than the other 34567482 sins that someone can commit, albiet it can have stronger consequences than other sins.

And to open an even larger can of worms, I would really love to have a serious (and civil!!) discussion about who exactly it was that defined "sexual (im)morality", which is how the Bible terms it - a very broadstroke and nebulous phrase for what is sexually permitted and what is not - but determined by who? Where does Jesus SPECIFICALLY say that sex outside of the marriage bed is a sin? (If it is in there, fabulous! ;-) I will learn something new. I just have personally never seen it.)

The only thing that can truly assist this experimentation phase that EVERY single pre-teen/teenager/young adult goes through is proper education, at the proper time - and not freaking out every time the word comes up or if they happen to see or hear something inappropriate (based on your personal values).

As for this "challenge" by the pastor in question? I think his heart is in the right place. But 30 days in a row is a huge stretch, to me... personally speaking, I think that this sort of mandate puts undue pressure on a relationship - especially to those who have kids or other time-consuming things going on in their lives. I would MUCH rather have a *few* wonderful, intimate encounters with my husband - once or twice a week, or whatever - rather than to think that we MUST have sex every day for 30 days. Then, it would become drudgery. Just my .02.

And yes, talking about it in church is a bit weird - instead of making it congregation-wide, perhaps they should contain it to a Sunday school class or a special small group, or a specific church gathering where the intent and content is published well in advance. In any case, I think the intent here is good.

Brant - sorry for the long-windedness.