Ancient Wisdom for No One in Particular

I'm hereby offering advice to no one in particular.  No one asked for it, and no one should vainly imagine themselves its intended audience.  So be not offended.  I didn't have you in mind.  You probably think this song is about you?  Don't you?  Don't you?

Put Your Dang Kids to Bed

Seriously.  You can do it.

If you want to have a marriage with some zing, put your dang kids to bed.  Put them to bed EARLY. Put them to bed on time, the same time, every night, and make them stay there. 

Then, go goof off with your wife.  Laugh and talk and unwind and watch "Walker, Texas Ranger" until you can't laugh anymore.  Be unproductive.  Smooch.  Do this every night.

Your kids need to sleep, and they can sleep.  They actually don't have to get up every ten minutes.  They're just doing that to get attention and delay bedtime.  Don't allow it, or you're a pansy.

This gives you -- and, more importantly, your wife -- some peaceful time, every day, to look forward to.  Moreover, it lets you stay happily married.  She's under less stress, you have time to connect, life is good, your marriage means something, and you remember you're not just roomies with junior-size roomies running around.

Don't just "help" with bedtime.  Supervise it, entirely.  Let your wife use that time as wind-down time, or to take care of last-minute things.  Kids will want to make bedtime an endless parade of traditions, too, in order to stave it off.  Don't let this happen.  Make it as simple a process as possible.  If you want to read a story, awesome!  Just start early enough that the lights go off at the appointed time.  Your kids will start to complain.  Too bad.  Lights off.  Sweet dreams.  Buh-bye.

Let them know that your time with your wife trumps all other considerations, and, after their bedtime, they are "other considerations."   Kids resist this, but -- deep down -- positively love it.

7 p.m. is not too early for young children.  Give yourself a couple hours together, not one or two nights a week, but five or six. 

If she's stressed out every night, because of her job, let her quit her job.  If you can't afford it, afford it.  Sell stuff.  Move.  Rent.  Forget the college fund.  Don't buy dumb cars and houses and stuff to make yourself feel cool, and miss out on a joyous, stress-limited marriage.  She can take care of herself.  It'll give her time, and energy, to love her children, her neighbors, and you.

So you bought her a nice car?  Who gives a rip?  She'd rather drive an old mini-van and have you around, living life together at a sweet, beautiful pace.  Even if she doesn't think she wants this, she does.

Quit buying crap and live in a trailer if you have to.  And put your trailer-kids to bed, for crying out loud.  Don't let them get up unless it's an emergency.  Smooch your wife.

There.  Sheesh.

Comments

[Steve Scalici]

We did a similar God's Money but it wasn't this good. This would have made a much better radio show had you gone off like this.

We have followed this line of thinking since our first was born and it works. The wife quitting her job is so poignant. I speak to many couples who wrongly believe they both have to work. Both spouses working leads to plenty of bad habits (lack of discipline is a big one). Many moms I speak to say they feel guilty for not seeing their kids all day so the "go easy." We also see it with bed times, etc. The other big problem is the workaholic dad. Sure, mom stays home but dad is never around. I made a commitment about 5 years ago to be home earlier (no later then 6 pm). If I have unfinished work, it can wait. If it really can't I'll take care of it after they go to bed. The resukt has been happier kids and a happier, less tired wife which ultimately results in a very happy husband. Here it is in pig latin: "exsay." And isn't that what we're shooting for?

[cap]

Awesome.

Welcome back.

[Carrie K.]

Well said! Our kids have had a bedtime of 8:00 every night for as long as we've had kids - with the rare night to stay up - maybe once or twice a month. Our oldest is now 10, and she goes into her room at 8, lights off at 9. From 8 to 10 is OUR time. I believe it's one reason we still love to spend time together after 12 years of marriage.

[Mary]

I've just come across your site recently. You make me laugh and think. Love it! I give a hearty AMEN to this post/advice "to no one in particular" - especially the part about bed times. Our young children go to bed between 7 and 7:30. It's part of what helps keep our marriage strong and alive, and we cherish this time together. One piece of additional advice I'd give is that this bed time works IF the children are not amped up on sugar and caffeine.

[Kristina]

Amen, you are right about what wives want and need!

[isaiah543]

I agree wholeheartedly with your policy.

As one whose children are a little older than yours, however, let me sound a warning.

The day is coming, very soon my friend, when this won't work anymore. Soon you will be old and want to go to bed at 10pm and your kid will be 14 and want to go to bed at 2am and you'll have to grant him/her at least 10:30. Which means there is ZERO! kidless time for you and your wife. Prepare for it now. I was actually quite angry about it for a year or so, but now I have adjusted.

The positive flip side is that they'll be old enough that you can just leave the house in their care and go out for a date every now and then without having to hire a babysitter.

[Steve]

And if your kids get that much sleep they'll do better in school which creates even less stress for your family.

[Brant]

Our boy is now a teenager, and his "bedtime" is 7:30.

This sounds awful -- and could be -- but this merely means only he has to hang out in his own room, reading, writing, listening to his iPod, until 9 or so. We just close our door. We all get up early because of my job.

Definitely true about the sugar and caffeine. I'll offer more unsolicited advice on family eating sometime, and make even more people think I'm directing it at them, specifically. I'll bet two dozen families are thinking I wrote this last one to them.

Steve, your pig-latin is right on. For some reason, men trade in exsay for orkway, all for arscay and acationsvay and rapcay. No clue why they make that trade, but they do.

I reckon I'll keep my old car (wink wink, say no more, say no more...)

[isaiah543]

I saw this coming. I can see that this might work if your teenager is a boy. But our teenager is a girl. And little women are like big women. You have to talk to them a lot. KnowhutImeanvern?

[Brant]

Good point.

If this time is compromised -- what we have now -- I'm going to hate it, like it sounds like you did. Hate, hate, hate it. Like really hate it, with a hating hatred, borne of hate. How'd you adapt?

[isaiah543]

Remember, it took me a year. I hate, hate, hated it with a hatred your hatred can't approach with a ten foot pole. My hate, hate hatred would put a smackdown on your pretended hate hate hatred.

Just being silly. Anyway, my adjustment involved a lot of mortification of the desires of the flesh. Life has seasons. And adolescence is one of those things that is worth sacrificing for.

It also helps that my job allows me a flexible schedule. So I get times with my wife in the early afternoon that compensate for the loss of late night. Plus, don't forget the date night thing.

[Seth Ward]

And man don't forget about sex.

Good stuff. What do you think about a babysitter at least once a week? (Not there yet, no kids, but I know several couples who can't seem to peel themselves away from their kids for a date)

[Brant]

Since babysitters are expensive, our goal has been to have in-house "dates" practically all week after the kids are in their places. We've been doing this for years, and it alleviates, to a great degree, the understandable desperation to get away from the kids.

As far as "can't peel themselves away" -- I know what you mean, and there's a great deal of sad psychology behind this, that has more to do with the marital relationship than the kids. It's a familiar pattern:

Mom feels bad about herself, for a number of possible reasons, like picking up weight after childbirth, and throws herself into her kids, Dad responds by throwing self into work and other stuff, and the net result is a lack of romance that's tacitly approved by both parties, even though it's not what they want, deep down. Both can use seemingly noble motives to do this, because one is taking care of the kids and the other is a great provider. I see this more than frequently.

[Seth Ward]

Someone needs to give a seminar to... the whole friggin church on this. Or at least a sermon. I see couple after couple looking like they are in a zombie marriage. I walked up to my wife the other day at church and said "Hey hotstuff" and this very pretty wife and mother of two said jokingly "awwe I wish my husband would say stuff like that..." we kind of chuckled but then she went into how when you get kids things are never as romantic, followed by instructions on how we should enjoy the romance now because later...

When we told her we would be happy to watch the kids one night if they ever wanted a date she suddenly looked distant and scared.

Other times when Amber and I show signs of liking each other the suggestions for us to have kids tend to escalate. Almost as if they are wishing children upon the romance. It’s kinda creepy.

[Brant Hansen]

Yes -- and I can guarantee my original post bothers some people for the same reason. We work things out in our minds, to justify what we're doing or settling for, and a "Hey, hotstuff..." moment busts through it, creating dissonance.

The good news: Our life has only improved with kids. Sounds impossible, but it has. Not *because* of the kids, but because we've made the decisions we have about work, what we really need to own, etc. We're under less pressure, which frees us up to love each other and our neighbors.

One of the smartest moves we ever made, besides the financial ones that allowed Carolyn to work only if she wants: signing up at a gym. Carolyn got to get away from the kids during the day for a bit, and feel better about herself. Worth every dime, and helped me, too.

[Todd Hawkins]

Have your exsay in the ivinglay oomray, and they'll never get out of edbay before orningmay for the rest of their lives.

I'm glad you're back, Brant. Now I can look forward to opening up the old laptop again!

And to any readers who may wonder--Brant and Carolyn's kids are truly exceptional in all the right ways.

[Susanne]

I'm one of those people you're preaching to! I admit it. We have small kids, and we rarely have time for just the two of us. I think the important thing, though, is that it's okay with us for the time being. We weren't the type to go out on many "dates" before kids, so staying home with them just feels natural. And the bedtime stuff will get easier once they're not toddlers anymore. Time passes by so fast, and we're okay with snuggling with our kids some nights. Whatever arrangement you have, I think you have to make sure that it's a mutual thing.

I loved what you said about helping your wife. Some people don't see how a stay-at-home mom could be tired, but it's so much more exhausting than any other job I've had. And you're exactly right...what's the last thing an exhausted mom will want to do at the end of the day?! ;) All she'll be thinking about is sleep. Just seeing your husband pitching in to help out is a turn-on.

One thing that our church does that is great (especially for those of us with no family closeby) is called "Parents' Night Out." They hire childcare workers for one Friday out of the month, and for about $5 per kid you can go out from 5:30 until as late as 10pm. It was so nice for us to be able to leave our kids with people that we already knew and trusted.

[Susanne]

Oh, Seth - I meant to say that I love it that you call Amber "hot stuff!" I think that if you've been married a while and still call her that, having kids won't change that one bit. My husband might have said something like that to me in public when we were dating, but I'm sure he hasn't since we've been married. We're just more subtle with each other. My guess is that the husband of the lady at church is the same way. I think you guys are gonna be just fine! My advice is to be like my parents: let your kids see you kiss and be romantic with each other. You'd think that the kids would hate it, but it's such a comfort to know that your parents are crazy about each other.

[Seth Ward]

Susanne, You might be right about that couple. I don't think you have to call you wife "hotstuff" (lol) in public to demonstrate a healthy love-life.

However, I am sticking to my guns on the "wishing- kids-on-us-so-that-they-won't-feel guilty-about-a-non-existent-romance thing that happens. That has happened more than once and it must stop or we will never have kids.

Then we see couples like you guys who obviously light up around each other and think it might not be sooooo bad.
;- )

[RevJeff]

DUDE - you are back with a vengeance... AMEN

[Steve_11]

Brant, you made me feel bad. We are so far from your ideal that it would make you cry, except you are too busy with all the omanceray and the exsay.

I guess I'd better do something to turn this around astfay. Can't.... seem.... to.... find.... my bootstraps.

[Lisa]

Our kids are still small, so Brant, we are in the same place as you--we put their pajamas on at 7:00 (even though bedtime's officially 8:00) and we tell them this is because "after 7:00 we can put you to bed whenever we need to." And then we put them to bed at latest by 8 and tell them, "We love you very much. We will love you just as much in the morning. And we'd better not see you until then."

However, as an (almost) fully recovered teenager, I'll just offer these hopefully encouraging words. My parents required both my brother and I (gender notwithstanding) to retire for the evening by 9 pm right up until the day we left home for college. And none of this reading or talking on the phone in your rooms, either (as if we'd have been allowed phones in our rooms), it was lights out at 9. Evening activities outside the home (while some wiggle room might be negotiated here) usually fell into these basic categories.

1. Time-specific activities (movie, ball game, youth group function): Ending time of event + time required to get home = curfew. Arrival at or after 9 pm means straight to bed.

2. Time-optional activities (at friend's house, shooting hoops, dates not covered in #1): Depends on the activity and the companion, but NO LATER than 10 pm, including on weekends. Same deal on going right to bed.

3. Special occasions (prom, New Year, youth group lock-in): Case-by-case basis, but if possible activities like "after-Prom" conducted at our house, thereby making curfew moot.

I know many people might find all this unreasonable, but I don't remember being traumatized.

[Susanne]

You're right Seth...I remember getting some of that from people too. I also remember people who had kids very young tell me, "You'd better not wait much longer! You wouldn't want to be too old!" And the people who waited several years to have kids would say, "Don't rush things...enjoy being married and doing things together just the two of you." I think most people advise you to do exactly what they did themselves because they think their way is the right way. :)

[Mothergrace]

Brant,

Maybe one point of this post was to encourage men actually "father" their children in the present sense, not just in the exsay sense?

And maybe another point was to encourage men to hang out with their wife like they while they were waiting for the wedding and the legal exsay.

Cool points! Very good!

Maybe I could suggest a another point - that it isn't one or the other - not parenting vs. marriage, but both, together, in balance?

And that learning to be married AND be parents is one of the ways that God grows, shapes, and makes us more like Himself?

I find that the "grace-based" parenting authors have a better grasp of this than the "parent -centered" ones.

Mothergrace - married, with eight children.

[MWest]

I can't wait for next week's tips on getting our pets to bed early. We adhered to the parents are in charge philosphy from day one and believe me, it pays off. From empty nesters who know.